NiFe batteries

[powerfarmer]

Hey Steve glad to see the response!
I'm just now recieving all my equipment, still waiting on some. I'm ingesting manuels right now, building my board for powercenter, etc.
End Of june I should be fully functional Panels and all. I'm hoping to be able to charge batteries from the dryer 240 outlet by next week.
If the magnum can do it. I'm setting up offgrid in the city using utility power for back up while I learn my system for the next year and 1/2, then its off to the woods next to a creek (power source), for life!

Glad the thread is alive. Glad your here, once I get something running I'll be free to post.

Question:
Can't you just charge your batteries to 80% ? That should eliminate most gassing? It will in mine it will, but our electrolytes are different.
You can add a couple batteries if needed, also I'm thinking it would extend the life of the bank...?

well, back to the manuels for me. This is a very fun time, everythings almost here.

[SteveH]

You can try the 80% charge. It did not work for me, and the dealer told me that someone else who tried it was unhappy with the results. Won't hurt these batteries, of course, which is one nice benefit...you can try anything you want and the batteries will be fine. My results so far are that the batteries want to be fully charged, not to prevent damage as one would see in lead acid batteries, but in order to have the capacity you expect, want, and/or need. We went from our very large forklift bank to this much smaller capacity nickel iron one, and we find we are able to do just fine. However, we need that full capacity and will have to accept the water usage. At least, unless and until we find some other method of minimizing water loss.

[AzSun]

Great site ! I posted this information on another website but thought I would share. It's great to see others using NiFe cells.



I purchased a set of Edison NiFe batteries from a rancher in Nebraska ~ 1978. He told me he bought them used in the 1940's from Europe. I intended to charge them with a wind powered generator but ended up using a different set of Edison’s from another source. When I moved from Pennsylvania to Arizona, I may have drained them for the move but don't recall for sure. They sat on a shelf until last fall when I decided to try them out using solar panels as a charge source. No electrolyte was visible by looking down the fill hole. They were rinsed until clear and refilled with new electrolyte. Each one was charged individually with a regulated power source and load tested with a home made set of load resistors. The new rating on this set is 375 AH. They are now over 75 years old. Initial testing revealed they currently have similar characteristics of a ChangHong NF 100-S which is rated at 100 AH. They have been in service for nearly 5 months now. I will be load testing the bank soon to see what the performance is having been through many charge/discharge cycles.

[powerfarmer]

Hey thanks for sharing, nice pictures.
I should be filling and charging mine in about 4 days, had a hard time finding mineral oil, I told the lady at the CVS online site over the phone to expedite the shipping, I need six 32oz bottles of DUP minerial oil lubricating laxative now! She was very professional but her voice seemed very constricted.

I'm not sure what capacity of amp hrs I'll end up with when mine are up and running. Nickle iron batteries gain up to 30% more capacity with use and that is not rated.
ZappWorks gives their ratings on the battery bank, rather then each individual cell.

Mine are the Star 500 amp series 24 volts. Rated at 5 hr.s with a cut off rate at 10 volts, since most inverters cut off at 10 volts. A 20 rating will show much more than 500 amp hrs.

I'm really hoping to gain a lot of capacity because I had planned on running at 80% after breaking them in to eliminate excessive gassing.

Tommorrow I'll round up 75 gallons of distilled water and keep searching for a local business that can still press connectors on 4.0 cable...you could get that done most any where 15 yrs ago.

The only hold up is the minerial oil laxative, should be here in 4 business days...ordered last friday.

[AzSun]

I would hold off on adding the mineral oil. While I did add oil to one of my sets with no negative effects, there are a few valid reasons to do with caution.

1. While Edison did recommend adding oil early on, this recommendation seemed to dissapear in the later years of manufacturing.
I am not sure why this practice stopped.

2. "Mineral Oil" is a very broad term. I think the chemical composition varies widely.

3. There is this process called saphonization used in soapmaking where alkaline solutions are used to break down fat. Potassium hydroxide
could break down some oils.

4. If the cells are charged each day, the resulting outgassing of hydrogen and oxygen is likely to prevent carbon dioxide from entering the cell anyway.

5. Even if the perfect oil is found, what happens if the electrolye gets low to the point the active plate material is immersed in oil, does it render that area
useless ? I don't know.

For now I am holding off on using oil. The next thing I will try is to insert a low sulphur one hole rubber stopper in each cell then run a piece of tubing
from the stopper to a container filled with water. This will act like a trap and allow battery venting, absorb mist "carry over", but not allow CO2 to go
back into the cell. The tubing will be arched upward as to not permit the water to be drawn back into the cell when it cools. The oil I used was the type
used in ammonia refrigeration systems. As ammonia is a strong base, I thought breakdown was unlikely. While it did float on the oil, the clear electrolyte
became yellowish indicating some solubility of the oil in the electrolyte. Also, if you overcharge a cell with oil added. it makes a huge foamy mess that is
difficult to clean up.

[powerfarmer]

The folks that rebuilt my batteries recommend the mineral oil, DUP, 99.9% pure only, the .01 is vitamin E that acts as a stablizer. Make sure its safe for human consumption. It also has the highest viscosity which is 500.

Everything I'm doing is per ZappWorks instructions.

"Charging at the highest voltage is a huge advantage, but charging too long at a high voltage will cause oil to foam. The length of time on bulk charge needs to be limited. Normally float at 1.65vdc."

"Every system is a little different due to the vast varieties of equipment. On any system with a 1.65vdc or higher the following 2 steps apply:

"Determine the highest bulk charge voltage your system can produce. Charge at the highest voltage possible, watching the mineral oil level. It will foam as hydrogen and oxygen are formed. Determine the length of time and voltage it takes for the mineral oil to reach 1 inch from the lid. This is the bulk voltage and time. Set charging time to 20% less than this measurement. This will allow maximum absorption of power."

Step 2 is adjusting for cold weather...doesn't apply to me. My bank will always be 70 degrees or hotter.

[sunseeker]

Really enjoyed your post on your NiFe experiences! My question is: are the chinese battery plates nickel plated as opposed to pure nickel? Is that why they're rated for 20 years rather than a lifetime?